Talking Under Water

EPA’s legal PFAS battle, tariff fallout, and America’s aging water systems

In this episode, Talking Under Water co‑hosts discuss the newest PFAS regulatory developments, major legal challenges, and the mounting strain on water and stormwater infrastructure across the U.S. The conversation begins with the EPA’s decision to add PFHXSNA to the Toxics Release Inventory, expanding federal PFAS tracking and community access to chemical data. The hosts then outline the unfolding court battle over EPA’s PFAS drinking water rule, detailing the agency’s motion to sever and pause litigation on the hazard index and the strong opposition filed by AWWA and AMWA, who argue that utilities need unified judicial review to plan for compliance.
 
The episode also explores the Supreme Court’s recent ruling striking down President Trump’s tariff plan and how the administration is seeking new legal pathways to maintain tariffs. From there, the hosts examine the politically charged response to the Potomac Interceptor sewer collapse, highlighting the operational, financial, and communication challenges surrounding the incident.
 
Closing out, the show turns to stormwater struggles on both coasts — catch basin failures and compliance gaps in Connecticut, and severe flooding, lawsuits, and multibillion‑dollar funding shortfalls in San Diego — underscoring nationwide infrastructure vulnerabilities. The episode concludes with key industry updates and program announcements.
 
Show Notes
EPA adds PFHxS-Na to toxics release inventory, expanding PFAS reporting
Court battle over EPA PFAS rule turns to procedural fight
AWWA-v-EPA-PFAS-Our-Opposition-to-Motion-to-Sever (PDF)  
Additional AWWA Resources for these court proceedings
EPA Motion to Sever and Hold Challenges to Index PFAS in Abeyance
Supreme Court strikes down Trump-era tariffs, raising implications for infrastructure costs
Trump calls for federal response to Potomac Interceptor collapse
 
Timestamps
00:00 – Introduction
01:06 – Episode overview (topics the episode will cover)
01:19 – PFAS TRI addition explanation (PFHXSNA added to toxics release inventory)
04:09 – EPA motion on PFAS drinking water rule (EPA asks court to sever hazard index challenge)
09:36 – AWWA & AMWA opposition filing (utilities argue judicial review should remain unified)
14:22 – Supreme Court strikes down Trump tariff plan (overview of the decision and implications)
16:35 – Potomac Interceptor sewer collapse (political conflict and infrastructure impacts)
21:34 – Connecticut stormwater infrastructure challenges (Meriden compliance gaps and repairs)
22:54 – San Diego stormwater failures (flooding, lawsuits, funding shortfall)
24:13 – Housekeeping (polls, nominations, and program updates)
About the Podcast  
Talking Under Water is the premier podcast for the water industry, including municipal water and wastewater, residential water treatment, storm water management and erosion control. It is produced in coordination between Wastewater Digest (WWD), WaterWorld (WW) and Stormwater Solutions (SWS). The podcast covers topics under the One Water movement including the municipal and industrial water and wastewater, residential, storm water and erosion control markets. Talking Under Water highlights news, trends, new technologies, industry discussions and interviews with experts across the municipal water industry. New episodes of the podcast are released every other week. Logo Images: Anatoly Tiplyashin / Romolo Tavani / stock.adobe.com.

Building the next generation of water utility leaders: inside Xavier University’s new master’s program

In this episode Talking Under Water co-host Bob Crossen talks with John Ikeda and Justin Roush about the launch of Xavier University’s groundbreaking Water Utilities Management master’s degree — the first program of its kind in the United States. Together, they discuss how the degree was conceived, the industry challenges it aims to address, and why workforce development has become one of the most urgent priorities for water and wastewater utilities.
Ikeda, chief mission officer at the Water Environment Federation (WEF), and Roush, assistant economics professor at Xavier and director of the new program, outline the growing need for specialized utility leadership as retirements accelerate and system complexity increases. They explain how the curriculum blends foundational business skills with utility‑specific coursework in areas like rate setting, regulation, capital improvement planning, and strategic communications. The discussion also highlights unique residency experiences, cohort‑based learning, and the program’s intentional focus on networking and long‑term career growth.
Crossen, Ikeda, and Roush explore how the master’s degree fits into broader sector‑wide workforce strategies and why emerging topics — such as AI in water — are being built directly into the curriculum. The episode offers a forward‑looking look at how the program aims to elevate future water utility leaders across the U.S.
Show Notes
Xavier University Water Utility Management Program
Xavier University Water Utility Management Program on LinkedIn
Poll: What is your biggest workforce challenge in 2026?
WWD Emerging Leaders submissions
WW Emerging Leaders submissions
WW Women in Water Questionnaire
StormCon 2026 registration
Timestamps
00:00 – Introduction
01:25 – Guest introductions
02:24 – Origin of the master's program
04:49 – Why traditional programs fall short
06:53 – What makes water utilities unique
08:20 – Role of WEF in program development
10:44 – Why visibility and career pathways matter
11:30 – Cohort model & residency experiences
18:44 – Unique program features
27:15 – Housekeeping announcements and closing reminders
About the Podcast  
Talking Under Water is the premier podcast for the water industry, including municipal water and wastewater, residential water treatment, storm water management and erosion control. It is produced in coordination between Wastewater Digest (WWD), WaterWorld (WW) and Stormwater Solutions (SWS). The podcast covers topics under the One Water movement including the municipal and industrial water and wastewater, residential, storm water and erosion control markets. Talking Under Water highlights news, trends, new technologies, industry discussions and interviews with experts across the municipal water industry. New episodes of the podcast are released every other week. Logo Images: Anatoly Tiplyashin / Romolo Tavani / stock.adobe.com.

Forecasting water in 2026: data centers and wastewater association goals

In this episode of Talking Underwater, co-hosts Mandy Crispin and Bob Crossen explore the forces shaping the water and wastewater sector as the industry looks ahead to 2026. 
The conversation opens with insights into new research on the growing water demands of data centers in Texas. Drawing from a recent white paper by the Houston Advanced Research Center (HARC), Crispin outlines how existing and planned data center development could significantly strain drinking water supplies if water planning and policy fail to keep pace with rapid growth. 
Crossen then shares insights from a January poll on wastewater capital spending priorities. Results show utilities are primarily focused on treatment process upgrades and collection system improvements, while resilience and emergency preparedness rank surprisingly low. 
The episode wraps with a broader look at 2026 industry forecasts from the Water Environment Federation (WEF) and the National Association of Clean Water Agencies (NACWA). Key themes include workforce development, the rise of the circular water economy, policy efforts around PFAS and the “polluter pays” principle, funding through state revolving funds, and affordability programs such as LIHWAP. Together, these perspectives suggest a shift from big‑picture concepts toward practical action as utilities confront emerging challenges and opportunities in the year ahead.
Show Notes
Thirsty Data and the Lone Star State: The Impact of Data Center Growth on Texas’ Water Supply
What is perchlorate in drinking water?
Poll results: 2026 wastewater capital spending priorities
Looking forward: WEF’s strategics priorities and collective action for the wastewater sector
NACWA’s clean water initiatives focus on liability, affordability and infrastructure
AWWA outlines federal priorities for water and wastewater utilities in the 119th Congress
Poll: What is your biggest workforce challenge in 2026?
WWD Emerging Leaders submissions
WW Emerging Leaders submissions
StormCon 2026 registration
Timestamps
00:28 – Introduction
01:05 – Overview of HARC white paper on Texas data centers and water use
01:42 – Projections for data center water demand by 2030
04:13 – Policy recommendations
06:23 – January capital spending poll overview
07:55 – 2026 WEF priorities
09:15 – 2026 NACWA policy and legislative focus
09:34 – State Revolving Fund reauthorization
10:08 – Low‑Income Household Water Assistance Program (LIHWAP)
11:15 – Housekeeping announcements and closing reminders
About the Podcast  
Talking Under Water is the premier podcast for the water industry, including municipal water and wastewater, residential water treatment, storm water management and erosion control. It is produced in coordination between Wastewater Digest (WWD), WaterWorld (WW) and Stormwater Solutions (SWS). The podcast covers topics under the One Water movement including the municipal and industrial water and wastewater, residential, storm water and erosion control markets. Talking Under Water highlights news, trends, new technologies, industry discussions and interviews with experts across the municipal water industry. New episodes of the podcast are released every other week. Logo Images: Anatoly Tiplyashin / Romolo Tavani / stock.adobe.com.

One Water: AI and energy needs in a sustainable water future

In this episode Talking Under Water co-host Bob Crossen speaks with Gabriel Collins, the Baker Botts Fellow in Energy and Environmental Regulatory Affairs at Rice University’s Baker Institute for Public Policy, about the evolving pressures on industrial water use and the widening implications of the AI boom. Drawing from his cross-sector expertise, Collins unpacks why water is an inherently hyper‑local resource and how industries — ranging from semiconductor fabrication to refineries and petrochemical plants — are adapting to shrinking supplies and rising costs.
The conversation explores how data centers are straining municipal systems and, in some cases, driving new water‑reuse investments. Collins shares real‑world examples illustrating how creative contracting and industrial partnerships can help utilities upgrade critical infrastructure. He also highlights the increasing viability of air‑cooling technology as an alternative in water‑scarce regions.
Shifting to oil and gas, Collins explains how produced water, seismicity concerns, and disposal challenges are prompting operators to rethink water management strategies. Throughout the discussion, he stresses the importance of “fit‑for‑purpose” water use and the opportunities for circular water practices that avoid mixing contaminated and freshwater streams.
The episode closes with a look at the logistical and economic barriers that still limit a truly integrated one‑water approach.
Show Notes
Gabriel Collins, Baker Institute for Public Policy
Gabriel Collins on LinkedIn
The Sinews of Civilization Substack
WWD Emerging Leaders submissions
WW Emerging Leaders submissions
StormCon 2026 registration
Timestamps
00:00 – Introduction
01:39 – Industrial Water Use in 2026
03:04 – Blind Spots vs. Barriers
05:07 – Water Reuse, Recycling, and Sector Differences
06:34 – Fit‑for‑Purpose Water & Evolving Standards
09:02 – Costs, Margins, and Sensitivity to Water Price
11:03 – Data Centers & Municipal Pressure
14:25 – Policy Levers & Infrastructure Investment
17:34 – Oil & Gas: Produced Water, Disposal, and Seismicity
20:19 – One Water & Virtual Water Displacement
22:08 – Barriers to Circular Water
26:35 – Housekeeping
About the Podcast  
Talking Under Water is the premier podcast for the water industry, including municipal water and wastewater, residential water treatment, storm water management and erosion control. It is produced in coordination between Wastewater Digest (WWD), WaterWorld (WW) and Stormwater Solutions (SWS). The podcast covers topics under the One Water movement including the municipal and industrial water and wastewater, residential, storm water and erosion control markets. Talking Under Water highlights news, trends, new technologies, industry discussions and interviews with experts across the municipal water industry. New episodes of the podcast are released every other week. Logo Images: Anatoly Tiplyashin / Romolo Tavani / stock.adobe.com.

EPA proposal for Perchlorate MCL, new PFAS treatment and infrastructure failures

In this episode of Talking Under Water, Mandy Crispin and Bob Crossen discuss the EPA’s proposal to establish a national primary drinking water regulation for perchlorate under the Safe Drinking Water Act. The hosts break down the proposed rule, monitoring requirements, cost implications, and what utilities should prepare for, plus give updates on PFAS treatment research and recent wastewater spills.
Show Notes
EPA proposes national drinking water rule for perchlorate
Federal Register: Proposed national primary drinking water regulation for perchlorate
What do the new PFAS MCLs mean for the water industry?
Steps water systems can take to address perchlorate in drinking water (2020 EPA guidance document)
New copper-aluminum layered double hydroxide technology offers sustainable PFAS remediation
Georgetown isolates 42-inch wastewater line failure after San Gabriel River spill
Houston reports wastewater spill exceeding 100,000 gallons following collection system failure
Timestamps
00:00 – Cold open
00:54 – Introduction to episode and overview
01:32 – EPA proposal for perchlorate regulation explained
03:49 – Comparing perchlorate MCLs to PFAS standards
05:00 – Binning approach for monitoring frequency
07:21 – Waiver process for reduced monitoring
09:41 – Initial monitoring requirements and costs
10:02 – Public comment deadline and hearing details
11:04 – PFAS treatment research update
12:23 – Wastewater spill reports
15:29 – Housekeeping
About the Podcast  
Talking Under Water is the premier podcast for the water industry, including municipal water and wastewater, residential water treatment, storm water management and erosion control. It is produced in coordination between Wastewater Digest (WWD), WaterWorld (WW) and Stormwater Solutions (SWS). The podcast covers topics under the One Water movement including the municipal and industrial water and wastewater, residential, storm water and erosion control markets. Talking Under Water highlights news, trends, new technologies, industry discussions and interviews with experts across the municipal water industry. New episodes of the podcast are released every other week. Logo Images: Anatoly Tiplyashin / Romolo Tavani / stock.adobe.com.

Where is the water industry heading in 2026?

In this episode of Talking Under Water, the hosts discuss the state of the industry surveys from each water brand — Wastewater Digest and WaterWorld — with some data points. The hosts provide some analysis of the results, including what some of the biggest challenges and trends are moving into 2026.  
Show Notes:   
2025 State of the One Water Industry
2024 State of the One Water Industry
Timestamps:   
Cold open | 0:00
Episode summary | 1:01
Financial trends | 6:29
Organizational health | 9:45
Key industry issues | 32:05
Housekeeping | 40:24 
Resources: 
WWD Videos
WW Magazine Subscription
StormCon Registration
About the Podcast      
Talking Under Water is the premier podcast for the water industry, including municipal water and wastewater, residential water treatment, storm water management and erosion control. It is produced in coordination between Wastewater Digest (WWD), WaterWorld and Storm Water Solutions (SWS). The podcast covers topics under the One Water movement including the municipal and industrial water and wastewater, residential, storm water and erosion control markets. Talking Under Water highlights news, trends, new technologies, industry discussions and on-site interviews with experts across the municipal water industry. New episodes of the podcast are released every other week. Logo Images: Anatoly Tiplyashin / Romolo Tavani / stock.adobe.com.      
Contact the Talking Under Water podcast editors by emailing talkingunderwater@endeavorb2b.com engaging with them on Twitter @TUWpodcast. Join the conversation by commenting or using the hashtag #talkingunderwaterpod on social media.  

One Water, Many Worlds: Insights from a global fellowship

In this episode of Talking Under Water as Kaitlin Spiridellis shares insights from her year-long global fellowship exploring water challenges and solutions across five continents. From Europe’s luxury water market and Vienna’s century-old gravity-fed system to sanitation campaigns in Indonesia, equity efforts for First Nations in Australia, and innovative partnerships in Africa, this episode uncovers surprising patterns in water stress and highlights emerging technologies shaping the future of “One Water” management. Kaitlin also reflects on the emotional impact of her journey and her optimism for global collaboration in building resilient, equitable water systems. 
Show Notes: 
World of water landing page
The Water Chronicles: A Journey to Understand the World’s Water Disparities
Timestamps:
Cold open - 0:00
Host introduction and episode summary - 0:53
Europe segment - 2:04
Australia - 15:04
Africa - 19:00
Global themes &  future outlook- 22:44
Personal reflection - 33:00
Housekeeping - 36:55
About the Podcast      
Talking Under Water, a production of Endeavor Business Media, a division of EndeavorB2B, is the premier podcast for the water industry, including municipal water and wastewater, residential water treatment, storm water management and erosion control. It is produced in coordination between Wastewater Digest(WWD), WaterWorld and Stormwater Solutions (SWS). The podcast covers topics under the One Water movement including the municipal and industrial water and wastewater, residential, stormwater and erosion control markets. Talking Under Water highlights news, trends, new technologies, industry discussions and interviews with experts across the municipal water industry. New episodes of the podcast are released every other week. Logo Images: Anatoly Tiplyashin / Romolo Tavani / stock.adobe.com.      
Contact the Talking Under Water podcast editors by emailing talkingunderwater@endeavorb2b.com engaging with them on X @TUWpodcast. Join the conversation by commenting or using the hashtag #talkingunderwaterpod on social media.  
 

FEMA administrator resignation, WOTUS rules, PFAS reporting & DOE investments

In this episode of Talking Under Water the hosts discuss recent industry news, including the resignation of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) acting administrator, David Richardson; a newly proposed rule of Waters of the United States from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and U.S. Army Corp; the EPA proposing to revise PFAS reporting under the Toxic Substances Control Act, the Water Infrastructure Modernization Act; and investments from the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) into resource recovery research and some patent-pending research for Purdue University surrounding PFAS chemicals. 
Show Notes:    
Search for the PFAS reporting rule change under docket #EPA-HQ-OPPT-2020-0549 here.
View a prepublication version of the PFAS reporting rule change proposal here.
Water Infrastructure Modernization Act of 2025 aims at expanding intelligent water infrastructure
FEMA acting chief resigns amid disaster response concerns
EPA, Army propose new WOTUS definition aimed at clarity and regulatory certainty
Purdue researchers develop rapid PFAS screening and replacement method
DOE invests $25 million to recover critical minerals from U.S. wastewater
Timestamps:   
Cold open - 0:00
Host introductio nand episode summary - 0:52
FEMA Administrator resigns - 1:38
EPA releases proposed WOTUS rule - 2:15
EPA proposes TSCA PFAS reporting updates - 3:44
Water Infrastructure Modernization Act of 2025 - 6:21
Purdue research on PFAS chemical alternatives - 7:56
DOE invests $25 million into wastewater resource recovery - 9:02
Housekeeping - 10:16
Resources: 
WWD webinars
WaterWorld November/December digital edition
SWS digital update
About the Podcast      
Talking Under Water, a production of Endeavor Business Media, a division of EndeavorB2B, is the premier podcast for the water industry, including municipal water and wastewater, residential water treatment, storm water management and erosion control. It is produced in coordination between Wastewater Digest(WWD), WaterWorld and Stormwater Solutions (SWS). The podcast covers topics under the One Water movement including the municipal and industrial water and wastewater, residential, stormwater and erosion control markets. Talking Under Water highlights news, trends, new technologies, industry discussions and interviews with experts across the municipal water industry. New episodes of the podcast are released every other week. Logo Images: Anatoly Tiplyashin / Romolo Tavani / stock.adobe.com.      
Contact the Talking Under Water podcast editors by emailing talkingunderwater@endeavorb2b.com engaging with them on X @TUWpodcast. Join the conversation by commenting or using the hashtag #talkingunderwaterpod on social media.  

The Cost of Quality: Rethinking Water Meter ROI

The water meter is the cash register for a water utility. For those how have worked win the water business for any amount of time, they've likely heard that adage. But how does a water system choose the right meter for the utility? Should utilities pick the cheap option because they cash-strapped? What is the difference if they are willing to pay for higher quality?
In this sponsored interview with Kamstrup, Jake Piccioni, solution manager for Kamstrup, talks about the company’s “culture of quality” to ensure their customers have the very best meters in their systems. Learn how high quality meters can lead to long-term savings with total cost of ownership, and that’s even before considering the benefits that newer modern meters offer utilities in terms of accuracy, pressure and other measured parameters. 
Show Notes
Learn more about Kamstrup: https://www.kamstrup.com/en-us/water-solutions
Timestamps
00:00 – Introduction to episode and guest
01:10 – What challenges do utilities face when lower quality meters are used? How can that increase the total cost of ownership?
03:29 – What about the Kamstrup designs sets these meters apart? 
06:24 – What about the materials? What are your meters made of?
08:00 – Given this scrutiny Kamstrup places on the design and materials, how then does that cultural of quality translate to manufacturing of the meters? What rigors do these meters go through for QA and QC? 
10:54 – What are the dangers of having poor or inaccurate data for a utility? What can utilities realize when they have good data?
14:16 – Outro
About the Podcast  
Talking Under Water is the premier podcast for the water industry, including municipal water and wastewater, residential water treatment, storm water management and erosion control. It is produced in coordination between Wastewater Digest (WWD), WaterWorld and Storm Water Solutions (SWS). The podcast covers topics under the One Water movement including the municipal and industrial water and wastewater, residential, storm water and erosion control markets. Talking Under Water highlights news, trends, new technologies, industry discussions and interviews with experts across the municipal water industry. New episodes of the podcast are released every other week. Logo Images: Anatoly Tiplyashin / Romolo Tavani / stock.adobe.com.

Water’s role in climate resilience

In this episode of Talking Under Water, co-host Katie Johns spoke with Dr. Jeremy Hoffman, director of Impact Evaluation and Community Science at Groundwork USA, about water's role in climate resilience. Dr. Hoffman spoke about his research with Groundwork USA, including heat and flood data; touches on the importance of community engagement and shares what challengees the industry is facing when it comes to resiliency. 
Show Notes:    
Cooling urban heat islands with smart stormwater systems
Resilience isn’t one-size-fits-all: Rethinking resilience for locally impactful solutions
New report finds water infrastructure investment could add $3.9 trillion to U.S. GDP
Transforming wastewater into renewable natural gas and advancing the circular water economy
Groundwork USA
Timestamps:   
Intro | 00:08
Hoffman's climate science background | 01:06
Overview of Groundwork USA and its mission | 04:09
NOAA’s Urban Heat Island Mapping Campaigns | 05:06
Water’s central role in climate resilience | 08:47
Challenges of addressing climate change |16:42
How environmental conditions drive disparities in life expectancy across neighborhoods | 19:03
Defining climate resilience | 21:01
Closing thoughts | 23:55
Housekeeping | 25:26
Resources:
WWD Q3 Trump Performance Poll
WaterWorld Subscription
StormCon Call for Abstracts
About the Podcast      
Talking Under Water, a production of Endeavor Business Media, a division of EndeavorB2B, is the premier podcast for the water industry, including municipal water and wastewater, residential water treatment, storm water management and erosion control. It is produced in coordination between Wastewater Digest(WWD), WaterWorld and Stormwater Solutions (SWS). The podcast covers topics under the One Water movement including the municipal and industrial water and wastewater, residential, stormwater and erosion control markets. Talking Under Water highlights news, trends, new technologies, industry discussions and interviews with experts across the municipal water industry. New episodes of the podcast are released every other week. Logo Images: Anatoly Tiplyashin / Romolo Tavani / stock.adobe.com.      
Contact the Talking Under Water podcast editors by emailing talkingunderwater@endeavorb2b.com engaging with them on X @TUWpodcast. Join the conversation by commenting or using the hashtag #talkingunderwaterpod on social media.